From “no white after Labor Day” to “horizontal stripes make you look bigger,” we’re unpacking the fashion rules we grew up hearing—and why most of them were probably made to be broken.
The rules we grew up hearing, the rules we followed for years, the rules we still sometimes hesitate to break — even when we know better.
From matching your belt to your shoes to avoiding horizontal stripes, we unpack where these “rules” came from, whether they were ever actually about style at all, and why personal style gets a lot more interesting when you stop trying to get it “right.”
🎧 Listen below, on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or read the full transcript further down this page.
🆘 This Week’s SOS Style Emergency came from someone trying to dress for one of the trickiest event dress codes out there: a family graduation.
With an outdoor ceremony, dinner afterward, endless family photos, and a family that tends to dress more formal, they were looking for something polished and put together—but still comfortable and true to their personal style.
The conversation led us into a very real styling question:
What do you wear when you want to feel dressed up—but still like yourself?
Got a style dilemma?
We’re taking real SOS submissions for future episodes.
Click for the Full Episode 3 Transcript.Marge Hudson (00:00) Happy Friday. We made it. Y’all made it.
Liz (00:02) Once again.
Maloree (00:02) Finally.
Marge Hudson (00:03) Yes, we did it. And we are here and I’m slightly terrified that my Wi-Fi is going to kick out. So that’ll be fine and we’ll address that as we do. but I am joined by Liz and Maloree.
Liz (00:20) Hi everyone.
Maloree (00:21) Hello.
Marge Hudson (00:23) And we record on Fridays and then we release on Fridays. And it is the episode that is released today is Maloree’s Introduction episode and a really wonderful episode about motherhood that I loved listening to again and found very just like heartwarming and actually had me having conversations with my own mom about style over the last two weeks. ⁓
that I thought was just like a really wonderful, like wonderful conversations to have. And so I thank you both for sort of inspiring that.
Maloree (01:00) I really I love that it open I hope that it opens doors for like other people and especially like other moms who are going through, especially younger moms. I think like in this season of trying to figure everything out.
Marge Hudson (01:11) Yeah.
Liz (01:19) I agree. I think a lot of these conversations, you know, we just don’t talk about how style is so much more than just the clothes you put on your body, but how it makes you feel and why you’re selecting something one day and something else another day. And I don’t know, a the evolution over time. I think we take fashion for granted. Take fashion for granted. and I hope that this just
I don’t know. I think that a lot can come from the conversations that we’re having and I hope that it inspires other people to have conversations too.
Marge Hudson (01:57) Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, we had, I think, this idea for this episode on one of the last two episodes. And I’m sure we talked about it briefly. but we are talking about breaking rules, breaking the rules. Rules don’t exist, but maybe they do. And I’m excited to of hear
Other folks like the fashion rules that maybe we grew up hearing. Do we follow them? Are there any that we desperately don’t follow? Are there any that we followed for a while and then ran away from? Are there any rules that you like? I don’t know. I think fashion rules in my mind is also somewhat trend or like cyclical in a way that like.
Sometimes there are more fashion rules than less fashion rules, but like is that trends? Like who comes up with these rules? How do we how do we feel about them? And how does personal style come to play if you’re following a specific rule book? And why bother? Or why ignore them?
Liz (03:16) Right. So
so this came up, I think, originally, Marge, because as we’ve mentioned before, I think all three of us are definitely people who are on the other end of constant text messages from our friends about like what to wear, when, and why. And I had gotten a text message from my friend who shall not be named. She will remain anonymous. She was at a conference and ⁓
Marge Hudson (03:33) Yeah.
Liz (03:45) She texted me because she was witnessing what she believed to be some poor fashion choices. And she texted me to sort of find out what I thought about some of the fashion choices that were being made. Because in the moment, she was witnessing some brown belts with black shoes and navy pants, I believe, all in like the same.
Marge Hudson (03:53) ⁓ yeah. Okay.
Maloree (03:53) Yeah.
Liz (04:12) Outfit. ⁓ and and just wanted to know because I think like she had been taught, like so many of us were, that like we’re keeping neutrals matching, or at least we’re keeping like belts and shoes matching in the same color family, or something like that. And it sort of spurred a longer conversation between the two of us of like which fashion rules still stand, which ones are we breaking, and so on and so forth. And it
Marge Hudson (04:28) Got it.
Liz (04:38) It was a lot of giggles between my friend and I over text messaging, because of course it was just sort of a silly thing. But I think it it opens into a bigger conversation of like, are there still fashion rules? Are there not fashion rules? Like, what’s out there?
Maloree (04:52) Distinctly
remember black and brown make a frown being like the thing that was just like repeated in my mind as a kid. Like you don’t mix black and brown. I don’t know who started it. I don’t know if it was my mom that said it, but black and brown make a frown was like ingrained in my mind.
Liz (04:57) ⁓ my god, stop.
Marge Hudson (05:08) Mm-hmm.
Liz (05:11) That is hilarious.
Marge Hudson (05:11) Never
heard that.
Liz (05:14) I love that. I have not heard that, but I can imagine it being something that is said, and I love it. I mean, so let me just say the idea of I I’m going to be judgmental for a moment. Sorry, those people who know me in real life. It happens every now and then. The the I the idea of a black belt, navy pants, and
Marge Hudson (05:14) W Liz, have you heard that?
Liz (05:43) Brown shoes does feel fairly extreme to me, but to each their own. I mean, there I I I am a believer that there are no strict fashion rules. That that there is a situation for everything that feels a little extreme to me. And, you know, I I can’t imagine that situation, but to each their own. But I have moved a very far away from black and brown make it frown. Like I think, and actually I have just now like.
Marge Hudson (05:51) Right.
Liz (06:11) It’s very warm here now. So not in the last couple of weeks, but like the idea of wearing like brown pants with black shoes, that is a hundred percent happening in my house these days. Like that is something that I would actually much rather wear brown pants with black shoes than try to wear any kind of brown pant with any kind of brown shoe. That feels more of a mismatch to me at this point.
Maloree (06:34) No, that’s
Yeah, that’s way too hard because then you have to get in the same like tonal and that’s just one’s gonna look more red than the other. No, that’s too much.
Marge Hudson (06:37) Yeah, I almost
Liz (06:42) Yeah.
Exactly.
Marge Hudson (06:47) Yeah. Or
there’s like the monochromatic looks that you see in which there’s several different colors within the same color story and it intentionally looks all put together. Or if you’re me having the same shoe in different colors and accidentally getting dressed in the dark and wearing one in one, I can’t say that that hasn’t happened.
Liz (06:51) Sure.
I think you said the key word, Marge though, intentionally dressing. Like maybe that is the key to all of this. Like there the intentionality behind the decisions that you’re making is is sort of the key and what makes whatever decisions you’re making fine as long as or the right decisions as long as you feel good about them and you’re being intentional behind them.
Marge Hudson (07:21) Yeah.
Yep, I agree. Maloree, do you remember like the black and brown do you remember that coming up as you were getting dressed or yeah.
Maloree (07:53) ⁓ all the time.
Yeah. I don’t it was it was always like you don’t mix black and brown. So when I was getting dressed as a kid and now I don’t I now I say it like funnily, funnily. It’s funny in my mind when I think when I’m getting dressed, but now I don’t follow that at all. But growing up I definitely black and brown don’t mix.
And you don’t mix navy and black. Maybe navy and brown, but you have to be careful. And it was just like these quote unquote rules who who the heck made them, first of all. I never understood that.
Liz (08:24) Right.
Maloree (08:40) Like the fashion police are not real and they’re not gonna come arrest me for wearing black and brown together.
Marge Hudson (08:41) Yep, it’s sort of like they’re
Yeah. I think it’s like sort of this like passed down from generation to generation. Like there’s obviously books about fashion and style and and certain rules. I think there’s one from ⁓ and I’m gonna blank on her name and be so mad when I can remember it later. But she was a personal stylist at Bergdorf Goodman in New York, and she ⁓ has passed away. But the book is called I’ll drink to that, and it’s a bunch of like fashion rules and
Liz (08:54) Mm.
Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (09:19) Personal styling anecdotes from styling Ibergdorf Goodman for years, but there’s like documented rules and things, but I think most of it comes from how we learn to get dressed as kids from our parents or family members or or sort of folks that influence our style at a very, very young age. And then trends and sort of influence of friends and and folks around that.
That then sort of shaped that from there.
Maloree (09:50) Mm-hmm.
Liz (09:52) I mean, I think it all gets passed down. I the things that still stick in my mind. I can hear my grandmother saying to me, or and I wonder if any of you can relate to this, like my dad saying to me, which I think is isn’t that weird? Like, ⁓ my my dad has a very strong opinion about lots of things, but a very strong opinion about fashion in general and
Marge Hudson (10:04) ⁓
Yeah.
Liz (10:21) Like I ju for himself too, let me say, not just about like me, but ⁓ I just like very clearly remember him telling me like what goes together and what doesn’t go together. And in my family, one of the things that was very big was an outfit. And so it the idea of putting what was an outfit versus what was just clothes was sort of
Maloree (10:24) Yeah.
Liz (10:50) a rule in my house. And so there were days that we just got dressed and then there were days that like you had to wear an outfit. And if there was an occasion or if we were going somewhere celebrating something, going out with my grandparents, going to a fancy dinner, going to theater, you had to wear an outfit. And what constituted an outfit with like matching accessories or a third piece or whatever it was, that was like a big thing for my dad.
Maloree (11:20) That was the that sounds very, very similar to what happened in my house. My dad is very well dressed. He’s very put together and I know he’s gonna listen to this. So you’re welcome, dad. ⁓ but he
Liz (11:28) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (11:32) Yeah, mine too. That’s
Liz (11:32) Same.
Marge Hudson (11:35) so I feel like that’s so unlike what I grew up like the typical like dad archetype is not is not that, but I would say my dad is also very put together and stylish.
Liz (11:38) I know.
Maloree (11:44) Mm-hmm.
Yeah. My dad, my husband is not. He can’t match anything. But my dad Yeah. Yeah. My dad was a stay at home dad for the majority of my life. So he was the one that was getting us dressed. But he’s always like put this into our into our lives and impressed upon us that you look good and you and then you feel good. Like
Liz (11:55) Same.
Marge Hudson (11:56) But he’s a fan of the podcast, so he let that fly.
Liz (12:18) Mm-hmm.
Maloree (12:19) Present yourself
how you want the world to see you. And you don’t want to just go out like, yes, there’s the days that you could just wear a t-shirt and leggings and just throw it all together. But when you’re going to something special like Liz’s outfit days, present yourself nice. Brush your hair, make yourself look presentable because that’s that’s just the way the world works is that that’s a first impression for someone.
Liz (12:36) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Maloree (12:47) If you’re gonna look sloppy and like you didn’t brush your hair or brush your teeth that day, like people are gonna see that and be, what’s wrong? You know, like it was just very impressed upon like you get dressed, you get ready.
Liz (12:57) Mm-hmm.
You hit that. You get back.
Mm-hmm. Yeah, there you go. So
Marge Hudson (13:04) Yeah, very much so. You say that the
brush your hair thing and it’s something that’s so funny now because my that’s something that my dad always asks is like we’re leaving to go out somewhere, you know, together and and he’s like, ⁓ did you brush your hair? ‘Cause I feel like that was something that I got asked a lot as a kid with curly, crazy wavy hair. And I there are many times that I shouldn’t brush my hair because it makes it look worse. Thank you. ⁓ the beauty scientists, please support me in the chat.
Maloree (13:24) Nice.
Mm-hmm.
Liz (13:33) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (13:33) But my dad is now bald and he’s been bald, like he like shaves his head and and for years. And so whenever he asks, Did you brush your hair? the usual retort my mom and I will say is, No, but did you? And sort of like turning it back, but that like presentation of you know what they look like and then what you look like is that impression, and also is also somewhat of a reflection on them and that sort of thing. I know
Maloree (13:45) Yeah.
Liz (13:45) Ha
ha ha.
Marge Hudson (14:03) As I talked to my dad about fashion and style and his growing up and and sort of his childhood, that like outward like perception is is very, very important, I think, for for a lot of people. And I think that’s like, I wouldn’t say that that’s slipping completely. I still think that that very much matters, but I think it’s in very different ways now than it was before. ⁓ and it’s not as like
Liz (14:12) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (14:32) Here are the rules and we do not break it, but the outfits and like having certain outfits for certain occasions and being certain dress like dressed in a certain way for different things was definitely a thing growing up. Like mixed separate, I feel like wasn’t a thing.
Liz (14:51) Well, exactly. I think the part that’s different for me now, and maybe this is where like some of the rules, quote unquote, and like where I I still get stuck in it sometimes in those rules, as I’m thinking back to what we like, even how this conversation started, and my like discomfort sometimes still with stepping away from the rules or my judgment, even if I don’t want to have it, ⁓ is that like I
My dad, like, it was all about the outfits, right? And so I know we like were sort of last episode or even maybe both episodes. We’ve sort of qu been like shitting a little bit on the limited two for their lack of size inclusivity. But like I I would go to the limited two and my dad would take me to the limited two every year, or esprit, it was one of those two every year, ⁓ right before school started. And he would pick we would go shopping for an outfit for the first day of school. And
Marge Hudson (15:31) But their outfit.
⁓ yeah.
Liz (15:48) And to be very honest, there was no creativity, right? We would pick the outfit that we liked and it would have a matching skirt, top, socks, layering piece, and hair accessory. And once you pick that like staple piece, you there was no creativity. You had the outfit that you built around it, or they had built an outfit around it, and you just selected those pieces to go with it.
and so like one of the first ways I rebelled against my dad or my parents was I didn’t want to I didn’t want that built outfit. I wanted to step away from that and I wanted to like deconstruct and and and not build that pre like formed outfit. And I think it took until I was much, much, much older that I again wanted to.
Maloree (16:33) What does it
Liz (16:47) build and create a full head to toe look that like was cohesive, but in my own creative way. And now my dad, I think, looks at me and we’ve like bonded over fashion again because my dad does appreciate fashion but and and an and an aesthetic, but I want to build it myself and I want to create it myself. And whether I’m like fitting into fashion rules or breaking fashion rules or whatever it is, I’m much more
creative in the way I think about fashion, where I think my dad sort of still wants it to be handed to him in a prepackaged way. He doesn’t have that like creative part that I have that I really want as part of like my aesthetic, I guess. If that makes sense.
Marge Hudson (17:35) Yeah, absolutely. It’s also like the reason why mannequins exist and displays exist in department stores is to really base like help help buyers make decisions and help buyers be attracted to certain certain looks or things for the newness and for the marketing of it of like what’s sort of coming up and sort of influence your choices there.
Liz (17:40) Exactly.
Marge Hudson (18:02) And then being able to say, I actually want this and I want this gives you that autonomy.
Liz (18:02) Right. Like my
Right.
Like he wants to buy it like off the mannequin where I wanna like, you know, go and like take one piece from one place and one piece from another place. Both ending up with like a complete look, but mine is, you know, a little bit more kooky, I guess.
Maloree (18:08) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (18:10) Yeah.
Maloree (18:24) Ha ha.
Marge Hudson (18:24) It’s
kind of like Maloree, that that game or toy you mentioned last week, the like Barbie color thing where like you have the top and the bottom. I I that made me think a lot about the hours I spent. We talked about dolls, but also like playing the Sims and playing like video games and how like building characters I spent way way more time.
Liz (18:31) Mm-hmm.
Maloree (18:32) Mm-hmm.
Liz (18:43) Mm.
Marge Hudson (18:53) deciding on the outfits and like the looks. And very rarely was it the full outfit as like pre-selected, but it was choosing all the different pieces that then made its own unique style itself that I really, really liked to play with.
Are there any like you mentioned black and brown is a frown or black and brown is a frown? Are there and like the mixing of like certain tonal colors, are there any other rules that you remember like growing up hearing or any rules now that like you still feel like are no-nos or rules that you’ve had that you want to throw out the window or that you you
Don’t follow any more.
Maloree (19:46) The why after Labor Day was a huge one for me. And I think that may be like the first one that I really rebelled against because I was like, who made this up? Like, why is this even a thing? But then like within the past couple years, I actually saw a TikTok about the reason behind it, like why it was an actual rule in the past. Because it was it was about like ⁓ it was it was
Marge Hudson (19:49) Yeah. Yeah.
Liz (20:07) So tell us why.
Maloree (20:16) Describing money, like your position in society, because only the wealthy would wear the white and the light colors. So I looked it up so that way I didn’t misspeak. But it was an old money barrier. Wealthy families wore light, breathable white clothing during the summer in coastal resorts. Upon returning to the city in the fall, they switched to darker structured fabrics to signal the end of leisure season.
So it was it was literally just a signal of where you were in society.
Marge Hudson (20:52) I wonder that’s super, super interesting. I wonder if it has to also do with the fact that like white my personal problem with light white clothes is that I’m gonna spill like inevitably I’m gonna spill something on it. And I think if you have somebody else washing your clothes or you have the money to replace something, you’re more apt to say, well I’m gonna wear it regardless.
Maloree (21:17) Yeah. It literally the next point on this rule was practicality, unpaved streets and dirty city sidewalks made the white clothing highly impractical in the winter months. So
Liz (21:26) Hilarious.
Marge Hudson (21:28) Yeah.
Liz (21:28) It makes me think of Gilded Age. Like that’s the my immediate thought is them like in Rhode Island and that in their whites and then back in those slushy city streets.
Maloree (21:30) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (21:31) Yeah.
Maloree (21:38) Mm.
Marge Hudson (21:38) Yep.
It’s interesting the colors. I I was just actually talking about this yesterday, but the colors and dyes of certain fabric in like the very, very early sort of textiles was really symbolic of wealth and status because certain colors took longer for the dyes to saturate the clothing. And so like deep, deep.
Liz (21:40) ⁓ what
Marge Hudson (22:03) Purples is really and deep blues and indigos are associated with like wealthy and also was like a color used often I I think I’m remembering this correctly in like funerals years, years, years ago, because it took so long for the dye to take to the fab or the fabric to take to the dye that it was like a symbol of like wealth and extravagance that those colors were
were sort of reserved for really unique and special occasions. But the white after Labor Day. So I wanna know how you rebelled and did you wear like a big bright color all the time?
Maloree (22:44) I wear I wear white all year long. Like
the white pants, I love good white pants. So I I don’t necessarily wear them like in the dead of winter because they’re like capri length and that’s too cold. But like I I don’t there’s not a cutoff date for me. And if I wanna start wearing white before Memorial Day, I’m going to do that. So
Marge Hudson (22:52) Yeah.
Liz (23:07) Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Maloree (23:13) It’s whenever I feel like spring and summer, especially just because seasonally that’s where I’m at. But I wear white all year round. I have no there’s no cutoff dates for me.
Liz (23:25) I think there is nothing chicer than winter white. Like white denim with a cream sweater and like a chunky brown belt in I maybe I’m influenced by Winterhouse. ⁓ Rip Winter House. Sorry. It’s the best. If you ever want to watch the downfall of somebody, watch Craig on Winterhouse. Sorry. but white denim with a cream sweater and a chunky brown belt. I mean, that is just
Marge Hudson (23:29) Yeah.
Maloree (23:32) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (23:38) Ha ha.
Maloree (23:47) No, seriously.
Liz (23:53) the best and I just am obsessed. I again I could never because I would be covered in red wine and coffee, but ⁓ I just think that is such a chic look. And I when I style people and they’re going on vacation for winter, I love sending them white denim. I think it’s just a great look.
Marge Hudson (24:14) And there’s also so many, so many ways now to treat fabrics that are just a lot easier easier to keep them clean. ⁓ as one who has a closet full of ⁓ things that help me get stains out of things. ⁓ but yeah, I I love the light.
Liz (24:24) Correct.
Maloree (24:32) You literally carry
I literally carry Miss Mouth’s stain remover in my purse at all times because that stuff I don’t know what’s in it and I don’t know that I wanna know, but it’s magic.
Liz (24:36) Mm-hmm.
No.
Magic.
Marge Hudson (24:46) Wait, what is it called?
Maloree (24:48) called Miss Mouth something, but it’s literally I think it’s like all natural. I don’t know. But it you spray that on strawberry, for instance. I literally just sprayed it on strawberries earlier today and it disappears within seconds. Yeah.
Marge Hudson (24:50) Whoa.
Liz (24:56) Yeah.
Or an oil stain, anything.
Marge Hudson (25:07) Ooh, that’s usually the culprit. That or tomato sauce. I love that. I love that. Okay, so we’re wearing white after Labor Day and we’re wearing it whenever we want to wear it. I love that. Okay, Liz. What’s your do you have a a rule you want to break or a rule you break often?
Liz (25:10) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Maloree (25:11) Yeah.
Liz (25:17) Yes, for example.
Yeah.
Yeah, I mean for me it’s wearing wide leg pants. So I am five two and a half when I stand up super straight and like really clench my butt cheeks. and
Marge Hudson (25:32) Ooh, yeah.
Which is kind of crazy
to me because for the first I don’t know how many years that I met you, like virtually and then we met in person, you give tall girl energy.
Liz (25:53) Well, I love that for me, but that is not the case. And not only yeah, did we discuss how Maloree and I finally met IRL? We should do that. But after almost six long years, we finally met in real life last week. It was wonderful. not only am I not tall, but I have short legs too. And I feel like for my entire life I was told I could not wear wide leg pants or that I should be wearing
Maloree (25:53) Hundred percent.
Liz was much shorter in person.
Liz (26:22) Not only should I not wear wide leg pants, but I should be wearing slim pants. and that is just not my journey anymore. I’m gonna wear whatever pants I wanna wear. And I love a wide leg pant. And not only do I love a wide leg pant, but like I’m I’m gonna say my age. I am 45. And while I love a heel, my the days that I’m willing to wear a heel are few and far between at this point. And so I’m gonna wear.
a flat or a sneaker with a platform most days. And so I my my wide leg pants are going to be shortened to the appropriate length for me to wear, not a heel. And I’m okay with that. And I think they look adorable. And ⁓ they’re my preferred silhouette now. And yeah, I just I don’t know why that’s the rule. I think that ⁓
They fit my body great and ⁓
They’re comfortable and I love to accentuate like I’m I guess I’m not looking to create a silhouette that is not there for my body. Like I like to accentuate the body that I have, not create a new silhouette that doesn’t actually exist.
Marge Hudson (27:38) Yeah.
Maloree (27:42) A hundred percent. I feel like we’re making Stacy and Clinton from like early days of what not to wear roll over in their what not to wear grave today.
Liz (27:48) Exactly. Exactly. Exactly.
Marge Hudson (27:55) But I think so they would they would come in and pull clothes and film at Lord and Taylor when I worked there.
Liz (28:04) my god.
Marge Hudson (28:05) And it was like Clinton used to like ride the escalator frequently, like just for like shits and gigs. ⁓ which I thought was a choice. but it’s it’s really it’s really interesting. ⁓ and I won’t stand on a soapbox for for too too long, but I think what’s really interesting is that there’s a lot of these rules and the people that put the rules in place.
Maloree (28:06) It is so cool though.
Liz (28:20) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (28:36) or like why the rules existed in was you sort of tee this up in in a way whether you you meant to or not, but like talking about creating a silhouette that’s not there, like dressing for your body shape. And I think as we think about like I’m in a larger body, and I think a lot of what I grew up being told was wearing certain clothes that made me look slimmer.
Liz (28:49) Mm.
Mm.
Marge Hudson (29:04) To
the outside eye, or like camouflage my body, or make me look smaller, or make me look more feminine, or like this like perceived version of women. And I think I’m gonna mention patriarchy and we’re not gonna freak out, okay? but truly, like I think I think a lot of especially women’s fashion is
was often dictated by men and for the appeal of men and or of function to serve men. And I think it’s interesting when we think about some of the fashion rules that exist and style and trend and evolution. It’s it’s interesting sort of now that I’m
Liz (29:38) Right.
Marge Hudson (29:58) Still in a bigger body, but there’s just a lot more clothes out there and options out there. There’s still not as money as there should be for what it’s worth. But the like there’s a lar there’s a period of time in which I wore pinup dresses and wore a lot of dresses because that literally was all that was available and they were black and had be a
be an A-line dress or a fit and flare because that would make my waist look smaller and it would give me a perceived like hourglass shape that my body wasn’t. And that was the most quote unquote flattering.
Liz (30:33) Right, yeah.
Marge Hudson (30:34) And that’s to me like the like to appeal to someone else. And it is more about how somebody else perceives me and they’re like catering to what they want to see from me, which I felt a lot of pressure until really like a couple years into Dia when I was able to sort of find my own style and
And continue to evolve it, but that like being like observing and and talking and and treating my body as like what its function was to the outside viewer mattered way, way more than like me being comfortable. Like I was of the era that I wore two or three pairs of spanks to work every day. Like for who? Like for what reason? Like
Liz (31:26) Right.
Marge Hudson (31:33) It’s sort of mind-boggling, but a lot of it was because I was sort of conditioned by society to want to make my body more appealing to men and more appealing to like what was trending and what was like set for me by other people. And I think what’s really cool as style and trends evolve and as like the
Liz (31:46) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (32:00) People evolve and as humans evolve, is like the younger generation is like, yeah, screw that. Like, we’re not doing that. I think Gen X has also done a great job of paving the way to be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, we’re not doing that anymore. Like, we’re gonna, we’re gonna like make this right. And I and I think there’s still some of that that’s there’s obviously some of that that still exists today, but I think it’s it’s wearing what you want for your, like it’s your body. You get to choose what you want to wear.
Liz (32:14) Right.
Marge Hudson (32:30) what you want to put on it, what you wanna do with it. And I think it’s it’s exciting to say like, screw the rules. Why why do I have to follow that rule? Like who who set that rule? Why? Where are they? Can we talk to them? Can we I’d like to have some words. ⁓
Liz (32:46) But
do you feel and like ⁓ maybe this is just me, and I don’t know if this is important or not. Maybe it’s just important to me. I don’t know. I know I’m like analyzing myself as I say things, but like I feel like a benefit of that, and I do feel like this is a benefit, is like as I feel empowered in my body, as I feel more confident and comfortable.
in the way that I dress, I am more, I don’t know what the right word is, appealing, like ⁓ a tr like that I’m gonna use a really scary word for myself. I’ve never in my life described myself this way. Like a a sexiness. Yeah. Like a
Liz (33:37) Like a sexiness or comes out that like has honestly or like an appealingness comes out that has like literally never come out before. Like I was at an event this past weekend that I wore something that I like just loved. Like I I wore something that I just loved and it was a totally me outfit. And I am not at my thinnest. I am not.
Marge Hudson (33:42) Yeah.
Liz (34:07) at my tannest. I am not at my ⁓ fittest. I am not any of the things that like society tells me I should be, but I like my outfit was a Liz outfit. And it was not a, I was not wearing a fit and flare dress, which I think is what my body says I should be wearing, you know, society tells me I should be wearing. And
Maloree (34:29) Ha ha
Liz (34:34) So many people who I haven’t seen in forever either told me or told I was with my parents, told my parents, like Liz is just glowing. She is in a pl I we haven’t seen her like this in years. Like, what is she doing? Like she looks amazing. She seems so happy. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. By the way, I wasn’t like that happy. but like all of this stuff. And I was like, I think it was because I like.
Marge Hudson (34:45) Yeah.
Okay.
Liz (35:01) felt really good in what I was wearing. Like that like that’s what it was. And like it so it like does sort of translate to Liz looked hot. Like and that’s not something that like I have experienced many times in my life.
Marge Hudson (35:04) Yeah.
Maloree (35:19) No, I definitely think like you look good, you feel good. Like if you are comfortable in what you’re wearing, you just exude confidence and you exude an energy. If you don’t feel good with what you’re wearing, what’s on your body, that’s not that translates. People are gonna feel that and sense that from you.
Marge Hudson (35:19) I think
Liz (35:23) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (35:23) Yeah.
Liz (35:38) Yeah.
Yeah.
Marge Hudson (35:43) think too there’s like a a a thousand percent agree and I think sometimes there are scenarios in which you have to like I say like turn it on like like mask or like act a certain way or like be in a scenario in which you would normally not feel comfortable in or not want to be what like whatever. But if you have the right out or you really like what you’re wearing it can
Liz (35:55) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (36:13) like leaps and bounds sort of like serve as a little bit of like a costume that you’re like, wait a minute, I’m feeling myself. Like I really love this. Like that that version of me in this outfit feels really powerful. Feels like I feel confident. I feel the most myself here. So like I can go and do that hard thing or go into that room full of people I haven’t seen in years and I feel the most like me. Therefore I will be the most like me. And that I think is something
Liz (36:22) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (36:42) far more attractive because it’s the whole it like is truly full body and like embodiment of you versus wearing a nice outfit and not really being comfortable or like not like I I’m like moving my body in a way that like maybe on video it would make more sense. But like that like you’re touching this and it feels tight and you don’t feel comfortable and you’re like touching it and whatever
That’s also visible that people can see. But if you like love the outfit that you’re wearing and you’re like, I feel amazing, people totally are drawn to that energy.
Liz (37:20) And that’s what I hope that like we can do at Dia or that other that like clothes can sometimes help people like do that like I feel like so often cl people see clothes as a way to like cover up their flaws. And like that is the complete opposite the way that I see fashion and style and clothes.
Marge Hudson (37:25) Yeah.
Yeah.
Liz (37:49) Like I see that as a way where like it took a really long time for me to get there. But like at this point in time, I see clothes and style as a way to help me like empower myself and like bring out the best of me and yeah, and show up for myself. And I wanna be able to help other women.
Marge Hudson (38:09) Show up for yourself.
Liz (38:16) primarily, but people who wear plus size clothing in the case of Dia or whoever we’re working with and styling do that too because I think it can be like just so empowering. Okay, wait, Mar. Sorry, go ahead.
Marge Hudson (38:28) And even just the well,
and even just like existing as that, like if we talk it bring it back to like the motherhood conversation, like you making an active choice to do that is something that your kids grow up seeing, that your friends grow up or or your friends are probably grown, that your friends see. And like I’m always blown away by friends of mine who I’ve known for years, have known me in all sizes, have also been all sizes, that are like
You are like you’re really the most you that we’ve that we’ve ever known. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the size clothes I wear or like how much I weigh. It’s like how I like one of the podcasts I love, they say like how you be an R and like how you just like exist in the world and like style just does that. And I think like that’s actually like
the most size inclusive is like your style and who you are should insp like can inspire other people regardless of of who they are. And that that is a really it’s really cool ’cause I don’t think there’s a lot of of that that exists in other in other medias. It’s sort of an art form if we really want to talk about it and get nerdy about it, but
Liz (39:46) Right.
I mean I love
Wait, tell us about the fashion rule that you are breaking or if there is one.
Marge Hudson (39:58) Okay.
I think I need to hold some people’s hands when I say this. I’m gonna hold my own hands.
Liz (40:04) ⁓
Yeah, I’m nervous.
Marge Hudson (40:09) Horizontal stripes are okay.
Liz (40:12) They really are.
Marge Hudson (40:14) It’s not that scary.
Maloree (40:14) Crown break.
Liz (40:17) Ha
ha ha.
Marge Hudson (40:18) It really isn’t. I think it took me probably 20 years to put a horizontal stripe on my body. And I was like, why did somebody say it could like this is kind of crazy? This looks good. And I think.
Liz (40:27) Crazy.
your butt you can wear horizontal stripes across your butt it’s okay
Maloree (40:39) I
just
Marge Hudson (40:40) Yeah, like it’s fine. Put it on. I think sometimes it has to do, and again, I think this requires some hand holding here. I say this with love. The size that you’re wearing doesn’t matter. Nobody cares. Nobody’s gonna put the size pants you’re wearing or the weight you weigh on your tombstone when you die. Maybe that’s just the reality of the situation that I’ve been living in in the last couple of months of my life, dealing real close to to death and scariness, but
Liz (41:09) Maybe
Marge Hudson (41:09) Literally
nobody has ever asked me, stranger, friend, maybe my sister, like what size pants are you wearing or what size shirt are you wearing? Nobody cares.
Liz (41:21) Because it doesn’t matter.
Maloree (41:22) You’re literally
the only one that sees it. You’re the only one that sees it.
Marge Hudson (41:22) You’re the only one that sees it, and it’s
on your back for a reason. Leave it behind you. Stripes are really, really, really fun and a great neutral, and I did say neutral for pairing. And you can do so much with it, and it adds such fun dynamic, especially because the way your body moves, whether you’re teeny tiny or big and plumpy like me, like stripes move in a way that aren’t
like completely perpendicular as you move and evolve and that’s what makes it interesting. Zebras are perfect.
Liz (41:59) Yeah.
Maloree (42:00) Mm-hmm.
Liz (42:02) My
god.
Marge Hudson (42:04) And you don’t look like a seat. Like, it’s fine. Just try it. Also, I think this is sort of goes without saying, but like there are very few things as you become an adult that you can have fun playing with. Because like life gets real real fast. And then you like have to pay bills, and that’s ridiculous. But like you can play with fashion and try things you’ve never tried before, patterns, prints.
Liz (42:18) Mm.
Marge Hudson (42:31) My take on polka dots has changed multiple times just in the last few years. And so I think like patterns and prints are such a fun way to play. And you may find you like really, really thin stripes. You might find you like really, really big, huge stripe. Like there’s so much to play with. And sometimes I like a stripe that’s really like a striped t-shirt. I was just looking because I was styling my D box, like a really oversized wide stripe.
Liz (42:36) Yes.
Marge Hudson (43:01) Or really fitted kind of crop that’s a thin stripe. Like there’s so many things to play with. And depending on how I want to style it in the whole outfit, they have different purposes and it’s not scary. In fact, if you are of the mindset of flattering and think I want things to make me look smaller, if that is something that you subscribe to, it is not something that I believe you should have to subscribe to because you don’t, but
In a lot of cases it does have that camouflaging effect that people are interested in.
Liz (43:34) Mm.
Marge Hudson (43:38) And I think that it’s like almost a misnomer that their branded is you shouldn’t wear it because it makes you look bigger. That no.
Liz (43:42) Right.
Right.
Maloree (43:49) Again, we’re making Stacy and Clinton roll over in their what not to wear graves today.
Liz (43:49) Right.
Right.
Marge Hudson (43:54) I I have some I would can they come on the podcast?
Maloree (43:56) Ha ha
Liz (43:58) my God.
Maloree (43:58) ha.
Liz (43:59) Well they’re doing like aren’t they doing or didn’t they do like a anti what they used to do show something?
Marge Hudson (44:05) Yeah.
Maloree (44:06) I was
wondering like if they that would be great because I’m curious to know like what they taught in the beginnings cause I used to watch that as a kid. What they taught in the beginning, like what do they still subscribe to or what do they like know I was wrong?
Marge Hudson (44:15) Yeah.
Liz (44:24) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (44:24) You
wanna know something else that’s super crazy. And maybe this is like maybe this is too broad of a generalization, but a lot of at least nowadays, a lot of the thing fashion choices, product choices that you see in mainstream media are product placements that brands pay for people to see. So it’s not actually
People choosing things for you, but it’s big businesses saying, Hey, we think you should do this and we’re gonna sublimably market it to you. So
Liz (44:56) What is that?
Maloree (44:56) How you
just you just pulled the curtain back for everyone.
Marge Hudson (44:59) I’m so
sorry, but that really did change how I view things. But like how many of those brands way back in the day would pay to have their clothes featured on these shows to help establish trend and market and capitalism and all that. And the circle goes round and round. And yes, it is a spiral to doom. ⁓ but it would be interesting to have them on the podcast. Funny enough, and I I’m sure you guys know the story because it was just included in the in the new
Liz (45:10) Right.
Maloree (45:11) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (45:28) ⁓ onboarding video, but Dia’s very, very first big viral quote unquote moment was on an episode of Stacy London’s Love Luster Run in 2015. And that happened totally organically. Dia’s founders were out looking for furniture. Stacy London’s team was out looking for furniture for a shoot for her new show. And they happen to sort of
bumped into each other and were chatting about what they were doing. And one of the clients on Stacy’s show was a young plus size woman and they sort of bonded over the fact that they were having a really hard time finding clothes for her. And so they came to Dia’s office when we first like literally two days after we moved in and they filmed an episode of the show. And when it went live, sort of a rocket ship
Liz (46:15) There you
Marge Hudson (46:24) Head up to moon.
Liz (46:25) That’s awesome.
Maloree (46:26) Crazy. Full circle
moment.
Marge Hudson (46:28) I know. So Stacy London, come on the pod. Any other rules or like things that like obviously there’s like the corporate, like what business like I think like work rules and professionalism rules, and I think that’s also changed a lot in the in the remote world. ⁓ but any other any other notes on rules before we jump into the SOS?
Liz (46:47) Yeah.
Any other rules, but I’ll just share that for the very short period of time I worked in retail, which was very short. ⁓ I any rules that I believed in at the time that I felt like I needed, or any man, I don’t know if it was rules, styling tips that I felt like I needed to convince the people I was trying to sell clothes to, I just couched in Tim Gunn, which gives you an idea of when I was selling clothes. ⁓
Maloree (47:21) Yeah.
Liz (47:22) circa like 2006, 2007, I would just say I would just say Tim Gunn says, and it didn’t matter what the rule was. And so like, you know, and I would go back and forth. Tim Gunn says that your pants should just skim the floor. Tim Gunn says that your that your that the hem of your skirt should pee or that the hem of that the cuff of your ⁓
Marge Hudson (47:26) Yeah.
my God. Yeah. Yeah.
My God. Yeah.
Liz (47:51) blouse should stick out t three quarters of an inch past your blazer, everything. They listen to Tim Gunn. So that that’s my that’s my rule. Just listen to Tim Gunn.
Marge Hudson (47:58) Yeah. Yeah.
Maloree (47:59) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (48:01) If you followed advice from Tim Gunn in the early two thousands and yeah, and you
Liz (48:04) You got it from Liz. And you were shopping at Banana
Republic flagship store in San Francisco.
Marge Hudson (48:10) Well if you take advice from there, you might be entitled to conversation. I feel like there’s so many of like the next top model and like Project Runway and all those things that like not a kind place to be for ladies of any of any size. Yeah. Yep. Okay. I have the SOS and now that I’m realizing ⁓
Liz (48:14) Seriously. But it was true. It was just Liz.
Yeah. Listen, I just I sold a lot of clothes. It worked.
Maloree (48:25) Mm.
Marge Hudson (48:34) what time it is and that we’ve been yapp yap yapping. I will run through it. But it it is actually was, I think it was a friend of yours who sent in their SOS and they said, and now if you’re unfamiliar with SOS, it’s a style emergency style situation in which they have called upon us for some style advice. So they write, my niece is graduating from college in a few weeks and we’re having a big family celebration afterward. The ceremony is outside during the day and then dinner and drinks later that night.
I want to look polished, put together, but still feel comfortable and like myself. My family tends to dress a little more formal for events like this, but I’m not really a heels and body con dress type of person. I also feel like I never know what the right level of dressy is for graduation, especially if there’s gonna be a million family photos. I tend to gravitate more toward relaxed, neutral pieces and typically wear sneakers or flats, but I don’t want to feel underdressed either compared to everybody else.
What would you wear for something like this? I’m in my mid thirties. I usually live in denim and oversized button ups and need help for graduation.
Liz (49:47) Wait, did we hear a climate or no? No. It’s okay. Okay.
Marge Hudson (49:50) ⁓ no climate. So let’s
assume springtime. Literally it’s forty degrees here in central Connecticut today and it will be ninety one next week. So hate that for me.
Liz (50:02) Nine. Yeah, it’s Nine D and Davis.
Okay. Who wants to start?
Marge Hudson (50:08) Graduation.
Liz (50:11) You want me to start? Okay, my central piece for this person, not because I know who this person is, just because I think this is the right piece, is a jumpsuit. I think a jumpsuit
Marge Hudson (50:12) Go for it.
Maloree (50:20) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (50:24) Ooh.
Maloree (50:24) That was my
first thought. That was where I was gonna go too.
Liz (50:28) Right?
I mean, especially just given like the sort of casual nature of this person, but needing to dress up more for the event and knowing that she’s gonna need to be in it all day, I think a jumpsuit is the way to go. ⁓
Marge Hudson (50:39) That’s so smart. And folks
have big feelings about drum suits.
Liz (50:44) They do. But I think I think the jumpsuit had like a little bit of a lull the last couple of years, but I really do believe a jumpsuit is back, especially a wide leg jumpsuit. ⁓ we happen to have a few in inventory right now that I’m absolutely loving. one in particular that I think would be great for this customer that ⁓ is like a single button, very easy on, easy off.
Marge Hudson (50:56) Yes.
Liz (51:11) Going to the bathroom is a breeze jumpsuit. that I think would just be great with pockets, love a pocket. ⁓ and it’s a solid color, so like very easy to accessorize, like I think could be worn many different ways many different times. But ⁓ I would I would go with a jumpsuit and then because we don’t know the climate, don’t know where they are, I I I don’t think of a college dresser.
Marge Hudson (51:13) Literally.
Ooh, yep.
Liz (51:40) graduation. I know she said that her family is on the dressier side, but like I I think she can accessorize to make it dressy, but I don’t think of a college graduation, especially if it’s outside as particularly dressy. So for a layering piece, I feel like I’ve added this to almost every SOS we’ve talked about, but like I would do a denim jacket as a layering piece. I don’t know. and then go dressier with like a statement necklace and maybe other accessories to make it dressy.
Marge Hudson (52:00) Yeah.
Liz (52:09) ⁓ and definitely stick with flats or a wedge if since we’re outside for shoes. ⁓ and then
Marge Hudson (52:16) A fun little like
bright color s like a pop color sandal could dress it up without even anything else.
Liz (52:21) Exactly. Exactly.
Maloree (52:21) Mm-hmm.
Liz (52:26) And then here’s my controversi sorry, go ahead, Mel.
Maloree (52:26) I really
I was gonna say I really love like an espadrill sandal, like a platform, because they’re comfortable, but like you can pick a bright color one and I think it’s an easy way to dress it up without putting any like real effort into something.
Liz (52:33) Yeah.
Marge Hudson (52:33) Yeah.
Liz (52:40) Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Marge Hudson (52:47) And be
comfortable for sure.
Maloree (52:48) Mm-hmm.
Liz (52:50) Do you want to know what my controversial ⁓ addition to this outfit is? Since we’re gonna be outside. It’s a hat. I think we should do like a little straw hat. Not a big one, because you know you don’t want to annoy the people sitting around you. But you’re gonna be sitting outside for hours. Sun protection is important. Straw hats are everywhere. Everyone has a straw hat.
Marge Hudson (52:57) Always hat.
Liz (53:16) And I think a little brim straw hat is essential.
Marge Hudson (53:22) Cute. I love that. At the very least, big sunglasses and sunscreen.
Liz (53:26) Yeah.
Yeah.
Maloree (53:29) Hundred percent on the sunscreen. You gotta protect your skin.
Liz (53:32) And if you’re like super anti the jumpsuit, then I think I would do a midi skirt and a blouse of or a you know cute top separates ⁓ just so you have like some options. But I really feel like the jumpsuit is the way to go. Make a statement. And it’s a and it and it it’s easy and it makes a statement, which I love.
Marge Hudson (53:50) I love that.
A jumpsuit is so easy. Yeah.
Maloree (54:01) It’s an outfit in one piece. You don’t have to think about it.
Liz (54:03) Yeah. And you can wear it
and you can wear it again and again. It’s so easy. And we have some really, really cute ones right now that I’m very excited about.
Maloree (54:14) Literally as Marge was reading the SOS, I was picturing the jumpsuits that you just showed us yesterday as like the piece that I was gonna say too. So it’s funny that we both went there.
Liz (54:22) Yes.
And those are really cute. Those are print jumpsuits. I was thinking of a solid jumpsuit, but those are print jumpsuits that are very, very cute. Very, very cute. So yeah.
Marge Hudson (54:36) They’re
usually really roomy, especially with a wide leg. You could do so much with that. You could like toss a sweater, like a pullover sweater over that, so that it’s just like a fun patterned bottom. And there’s just so much that you can do with that piece that can take you all day. And then if you are a sneakers and jeans girly, like you could pair that later on with sneakers, like Converse canvas sneakers or something in here.
Liz (54:39) Yeah.
Exactly.
Maloree (54:47) Mm-hmm.
Marge Hudson (55:06) Good to go. I’m a big like proponent of not buying one thing, like not buying an event specific outfit and more how do I yeah, like how do I get something that I’m gonna be able to wear at a couple different times and in a couple different ways, not just in the same way every time.
Liz (55:15) Total.
Mm-hmm.
Totally. I also think like the biggest complaint I have about jumpsuits or rompers is like how am I gonna quickly get it off so I can pee easily? And so this is you can shop anywhere for a jumpsuit. You don’t have to just shop at Dia, but if you are shopping at Dia, you can rest assured that I have thought about that in selecting the jumpsuits that we carry and we have an easy on, easy off option for you.
Maloree (55:39) Yeah.
Liz (55:56) So in our assortment that is guaranteed.
Marge Hudson (55:59) Yes, and if you bring the denim jacket, pro tip from a girl who likes jumpsuits, if you need to, you can put the the jacket on your arms to cover what you need to cover while you’re do you know what I mean? You know? Okay. Great. Great. I think that’s important to establish that sort of tone from episode three. So that’s the sort of style help Yeah, yeah, that’s the sort of style help you’re gonna get. Like this is
Liz (56:12) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You got it.
Maloree (56:14) Yep.
Liz (56:20) It’s definitely. And with that ⁓
Marge Hudson (56:29) Real from real real people who wear real clothes. awesome. Awesome. This is so fun. I am thrilled ⁓ to hear about rules. I actually am super curious if folks listening have fashion rules that they have and have broken, or if they have any like hard rules that they’re not gonna ever break. I’m super curious. So if you are listening and you want to drop a comment, you definitely can. You can follow us on Spotify. Now you can follow us on
Apple Podcasts. You can follow us on iHeartRadio. You can follow us on Amazon Music. Your girl’s been busy. ⁓
Liz (57:08) We are so legit.
Marge Hudson (57:10) I know it’s crazy. ⁓ I am using this podcast to distract me from real life. So but yeah, that’s great. ⁓ you can also submit your SOS, dia.com slash SOS. You can submit your style emergency and we will solve it in an upcoming issue. Issue episode episode. Okay. Yeah, truly. Okay. Have a wonderful rest of your week and love you bye.
