Episode 6: What to Wear on a Work Trip When You Need to Feel Like Yourself

A 4 a.m. flight. Three days in Washington, D.C. Professional meetings. Lobbying members of Congress. Lots of walking. Lots of standing. Everything you need for the day packed into one bag.

No pressure.

This week’s episode of Styled, Off Script starts with a very practical style emergency from Ellie: what do you wear when you need to look polished and professional, but also comfortable enough to survive airports, long days, and Capitol Hill?

But like most good style questions, the outfit is only the beginning.

Because the real question underneath Ellie’s SOS is something many of us have felt before: how do you show up as yourself in a professional space that already has expectations of who you’re supposed to be?

About the Episode

In Episode 6, Marge, Liz, and Maloree welcome Ellie, a Dia customer, Liz’s longtime friend, and a senior rabbi in Austin, Texas.

Ellie’s job is public-facing, personal, spiritual, formal, unpredictable, and deeply human. Some days call for slacks and a blouse. Some call for a suit. Some require a blazer kept in the office just in case she needs to go on camera, meet someone unexpectedly, run to the Capitol, or visit a hospital bedside.

So yes, the clothes matter.

Not because they are the most important thing in the room, but because they can help Ellie feel comfortable, confident, and prepared enough to do the work.

“I have learned how to choose clothes…that help me feel comfortable so that I can be confident.”

The conversation explores first “professional” outfits, the pressure to look a certain way as a female clergy leader, the strange things people say to women in public roles, and the small styling choices that help Ellie feel like herself: brooches, bold color, a great blazer, comfortable shoes, and a work bag that can handle the day.

The SOS

Ellie’s SOS was clear: She needed to get up at 4 a.m. to catch a flight to Washington, D.C. for three days of professional meetings, including lobbying members of Congress. She would be walking, standing, networking, and carrying everything she needed throughout the day.

The wardrobe had to be polished. It had to be professional. It had to travel well. It had to be comfortable.

And it absolutely had to include the right bag.

The Styling Strategy

Liz’s solution starts with pieces that can do more than one thing.

A breathable pair of pants with a matching jacket can work as a suit, but also as separates. A knit top underneath keeps the outfit comfortable for travel. A belted dress creates a second polished outfit and can be worn with the same jacket. Comfortable shoes are non-negotiable, especially for long days of walking and standing on marble floors.

The key is not packing more. It’s packing smarter.

Think:

• a breathable blazer or third piece
• pants that can travel without becoming a wrinkle situation
• a top that feels easy under a jacket
• a dress that works with the same layer
• shoes that can handle the day
• a bag that fits what you need without fighting the outfit

And because this is Styled, Off Script, the bag debate gets the attention it deserves.

Workwear, Three Ways

Instead of creating one episode-specific box, we’re spotlighting three Dia Themed Boxes that connect back to Ellie’s workwear SOS.

🎧 Listen to Episode 6: The Bag, the Blazer, and the 4 A.M. Flight

Listen to the full conversation below to hear Ellie’s SOS, the work bag debate, and the styling strategy for a professional trip that requires comfort, polish, and a little bit of personality.

Also available on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeart, Amazon, or to read the full transcript, keep scrolling.

Got a style dilemma?

We’re taking real SOS submissions for future episodes.

Whether you’re:

• packing for a trip
• stuck in a style rut
• navigating a wardrobe change
• or just not sure what to wear

Submit your own SOS request and we may feature it on the show!

Click for the Full Episode 6 Transcript.

Marge Well, we are six episodes in, and episode five comes out today, but we have another guest. Welcome, welcome everybody to Style Off Script, and welcome Ellie to Style Off Script. And I’m Marge here, joined by Liz, my co-host, and Maloree, who is a co-host, producer slash we’re figuring it all out, the master of all the social assets that are awesome.
Ellie Thank you.
Liz We missed you last time, Maloree. Glad to have you back.
Marge I know.
Maloree Yes, yes, glad to be back.
Liz And welcome, Ellie.
Marge But, yeah. This is awesome. So, um, some context, if anybody listening is like, who’s, I’m, I’m somewhat nervous to submit the SOS form, or I hear these style emergencies and I don’t know, I don’t know what that process is like, or I don’t really know if like, if you guys can solve my problem or whatever, we—
Ellie Thank you, thank you.
Marge —have the lovely Ellie here because they submitted an SOS style emergency. And then at the bottom said, and by the way, I’m Liz’s friend. And so it was kismet and said, okay, come on the pod. We want to talk through your style emergency. We want to get to know any friend of Liz’s is a friend of ours. We want to get to know all about you and your style. And and I, I also heard maybe a rumor that you are a Dia customer as well.
Ellie I am a Dia customer, it’s true.
Marge Woo-hoo. That’s awesome.
Ellie I just sent a referral code to a friend this week.
Liz Oh, I love that.
Marge Oh, I love that. Makes me want to pick your brain about referrals, Ellie.
Ellie I’m here to serve the people.
Marge Yes, yes, yes, yes. So either Liz, do you want to introduce Ellie since you know her better than we do, or Ellie, do you wanna kick off and sort of give a, an introduction to, to who you are?
Liz I’ll let Ellie introduce herself.
Ellie I’d love for Liz to introduce me, and then I’ll add, I’ll add what she misses.
Marge Great, great, great.
Liz Okay, fine. Okay, so I would love to welcome Rabbi Eleanor Steinman to the podcast. Ellie and I go back to at least 2000, so we have a friendship of, God, 26 years in the making, from sweatpants and long skirts on college campuses through first jobs, very low-paying jobs in nonprofit management and internships and first relationships, second relationships, grad schools, trying to figure things out, long-term relationships, marriages, everything in between. We’ve supported each other and loved each other through it, and Ellie is now a senior rabbi in Austin, Texas, and she is one of my favorite people on the planet, and I am just so glad she is here to talk about her life, um, getting dressed every day for a very complex job and not only serving her community, but, you know, being a leader, um, and a female leader at that. And Ellie, I’ll let you take it from there.
Ellie Thank you, Liz, for that beautiful introduction. You too are one of my favorite people in the world, um, and it’s very terrifying to think how long we have been friends. Um, you are a longtime friend for certain. Um, as Liz said, I am a senior rabbi of a congregation in Austin, Texas, and am a Dia customer, and very honored to be on this podcast to talk about my SOS.
Liz Aww.
Ellie And to share that this was addressed previously in a previous podcast, I am one of Liz’s friends who often texts her, I have a fashion emergency, please help me. Um, and I, I noticed that I think we will talk about a few of those text messages even today, um, having to do with work bags. So I’m just thrilled to be here and delighted to meet Marge and Maloree and the whole Dia listening community.
Marge Ooh. The elusive work bag question. I love that.
Liz That so many of us struggle with.
Marge It is hard. Can I ask with your, what, what that question was to maybe give some context to the listeners?
Ellie It is hard. The question was specific to my SOS, in fact, um, so I, I feel good about waiting. Sure.
Marge Okay. Should we wait till the end then? Okay. Okay. We’ll tease, we’ll tease that up a little bit. I, I realized I jumped over the sort of ice-, I don’t know, icebreaker questions always feels weird to like start an episode with. So I kind of wanted to like jump into introductions, but I think it will sort of lead us down the path of style journey and and how we express our style. But folks, here, what was the first outfit that made you feel like a real professional? Do you have that like first day of work? Maybe it’s kind of like the first day of school outfit that you remember you put on and you were like, okay.
Liz I—
Marge Go ahead, Liz.
Liz I remember going to Banana Republic and buying a suit for the first time. Why I thought I needed a suit is beyond me. Um, as I was working in the nonprofit world, and absolutely the last thing in the world I needed was a suit. But in my mind, it was the early 2000s, and that was what I thought as a recent college grad I needed in my life. I bought a three-piece suit. I don’t think I ever wore the pieces together. Um, but I bought pants, a skirt, a straight skirt, which on my body shape is not my preferred shape of skirt, and a jacket. And I pictured that at least two of those pieces, I would be wearing them on a weekly basis. Clearly. Yes.
Marge How? Yep. Um, yeah. For the rest of our lives. Yeah.
Liz When I went to the community center that I would be working at, and that was simply not the case, but yes, putting that outfit on in olive green, because that’s how I was dressing down. I wasn’t buying a black suit. I was buying an olive green suit because that’s how I was going to be business casual. And that was my adult garb. I wore the skirt.
Marge That’s amazing.
Liz And jacket on the first day, and then I believe I never wore that jacket again. Um, so that was my adult attire. Yeah.
Marge Wow. I love that. I, I have a similar moment that I was reliving this morning prepping for this with my mom about getting a business suit, um, a three-piece suit, pants, jacket, and skirt. And the only reason why it sort of came to be was because I got a job offer and they said, can you start next week? I said, sure. And they said, you’re going to need business professional attire. Do you have suits? And I was like, yeah, of course I do. I totally have a suit. Yeah. I was just graduating from college, did not have a suit, and had to work as a consultant for a company going into Morgan Stanley, the like biggest money financial firm, whatever. And I had to look like the part. And the shopping experience was—
Liz Yep. Yeah.
Marge Awful and traumatic as a 21-year-old plus-size human being trying to find clothing that fits. Um, I don’t know if this is on the, the like sort of brief and run of show as a question, but it is a formative crying-in-the-fitting-room memory of me because it was those moments that professional, that version of professional didn’t really make sense to me. So it felt like I was putting on—
Liz Sure. Mm.
Marge A costume that was so not me, and nothing fit, and I was just like so uncomfortable. And shout out to my mom and my sister who were like, whatever you need, we’ll make it work. We’ll tailor it. We’ll pay for it. Like, whatever, like we got you, you, we’ll figure it out. And the first day, I think I wore similar to you, I wore the suit and the jacket and the skirt and a blouse from Jones New York.
Liz Mm-hmm. Oh my goodness.
Marge these like kitten-heel, like cute Steve Madden pumps that was like my risky, like, okay, that’s me a little bit. And some funky, big, big, gaudy early aughts jewelry. And survived the day, got in the car, called my mom and said, “I don’t know how long I’m gonna be able to do this job.” I felt like such a fraud, but it paid well and it was fine for what it needed to be. But how about—
Maloree [laughs]
Liz Hilarious.
Marge How about you, Ellie, Maloree? Professional.
Maloree Mine is like—
Ellie Go ahead, Maloree.
Maloree Mine is very different because my first job was working for my family’s construction business. So, one, I had to interview, but it was with my nana, so I didn’t like dress up or anything. They just made me interview for like the experience of interviewing. And then my next interview was with Dia. So it wasn’t like I was, I had to dress up.
Marge I love that. Yeah. I love the—
Maloree Like, I just dressed cute because it was a fashion company, and I felt like I didn’t really need like pro, business professional clothes. And then my first like professional job that I did while I was still with Dia, I was a behavioral health technician. So I was doing counseling, and I actually got a blazer from Dia, and it was a Molly & Isadora black-and-white striped blazer.
Marge Ooh, yep.
Maloree That I’m pretty sure I still have hanging in my closet. But it was like a knit blazer, and I wore that with some slacks that I got from Dia. And that was my business casual. And that was probably the only time I ever wore it. It’s still hanging in my closet, but I needed something for that job. And then I worked that job for six months and quit. So, and here we are now. Now I work from home and I get dressed very rarely.
Marge Finding the perfect slacks, that could be a whole other episode, but like the work slacks is just brutal. Brutal. Okay, and how about you, Ellie?
Liz Yeah, seriously.
Maloree Oh, yeah.
Ellie This is gonna be a special shout-out to my fellow clergy folk. I, I also could have given a suit example. And I really think the first time I felt like a professional in my profession, which is a rabbi, a clergy person leading worship, it was actually, in some congregations, it’s, rabbis or whomever is leading the service wear a white robe.
Liz Sure, sure, sure.
Ellie And so I got my first white robe when I was in seminary. And that, when I put that on for the first time, it was like, okay, I am like legit ready to do. And it’s on the holiest days of our, of our year. And it was like, I feel like a true professional. And the irony is, then the beauty of a robe, my congregation, I, I do not wear a robe anymore, and I do miss them very much—
Liz Mm-hmm.
Marge Cool.
Ellie —is that they completely remove the distraction of what you’re wearing.
Liz Hmm. No one, no one, you don’t have to think about it. Yep. Yep.
Marge Ooh, interesting.
Ellie Not a thought. I can be wearing shorts and a T-shirt underneath. I never was, but I could have been, and no one would know the difference.
Liz Mm-hmm, that’s so interesting. Marge, that was the first outfit that made me feel like a professional, but it didn’t, that is not the outfit where I felt the most like myself. Like, looking back, I think I thought I was gonna feel like a professional, but to your point maybe—
Marge That made you feel like a professional? Ooh, yeah.
Liz I actually felt ridiculous walking into the office wearing that outfit, or I felt like I was playing dress-up. I never felt comfortable in that outfit. And it wasn’t really until much, much later. And part of this has to do with figuring out who you are as a person and a professional. But it wasn’t until much, much later that I developed the confidence and a sense of who I was that I could develop a professional look that was all my own. And really, it was much, it wasn’t, I don’t think I ever had that in that first job that I was in or even in the second job I was in. It was, it took a while for me to get there, and it had nothing to do with the role that I was in. It had so much more to do with like who I was and, and my sense of, of what my professional, what, what my professional style evolution was, I guess.
Marge Sure. I totally agree. Totally. I think if you—
Ellie I think that’s, I think that’s part of taking on a role as a professional, is that until an individual has the confidence of their position, of their profession, you’re playing dress-up. Not in a bad way, but the idea that maybe the clothes and the accessories and the makeup, or you know, the self-care that goes into your, your profession, your job, until you have that internal confidence.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Maloree Mm-hmm.
Ellie You have to kind of fake it till you make it. And the clothes help.
Liz Yep, yep, that’s a great point.
Maloree It’s that, that imposter syndrome that just is ever, ever looming near.
Liz Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Marge I think that makes me think of moments in my professional life in which I knew it was gonna be a harder day, or I had to have a difficult conversation, or I wasn’t really feeling totally myself. There were moments in which I would gravitate towards, we talked about comfort clothes or like certain pieces that I felt really truly me in, that helped me sort of gain that confidence or sort of put me in that, that mindset. I think also like sometimes a bold lipstick or a really fun accessory, a pair of like those combat boots that are, like, sometimes that like one thing that makes you feel like the most you helps pull you out in those professional moments to like remind you of, of that confidence, and while keeping it still quote-unquote professional. Because it is, I guess, like, I mean, it’s not easy to just go out and buy a suit and buy like professional clothes, and then all of a sudden you’re professional. I know plenty of people that wear professional clothes and are nothing of the sort. But we, we sort of question ourselves and doubt ourselves there, and there’s so many things that we doubt ourselves on, I think probably women more than men. And a lot of it, I think, style has a lot to do with that. Actually, do you, one of the other questions I, I sort of brainstormed through here is, do you ever feel pressure to look, specifically for Ellie, like do you ever feel pressure to look professional or look a certain way because of your role or your job?
Liz Hmm.
Ellie All the time, every day. A lot of times, for better and for worse, people have a preconceived notion about what it, what a clergy person should look like. Oftentimes that is a male-identified person. And so already when I walk into the room, I am not meeting what they’re expecting. And so I find it’s really important, you know, I, I am a believer, I know the—
Marge Yeah.
Ellie —the ru— the show about fashion rules was a couple of weeks ago, but I’m always a believer in that you can never be dressed too formally. So I often err on the side of that. And also I also want my clothes to be comfortable and be reflective of who I am and my accessories and all of those things. And I have a role to play as a professional, and I don’t want them, my clothing, to be distracting.
Liz Huh.
Marge And how has that, has that evolved over time since you started your career?
Ellie I think a lot of it is tied to my own comfort in who I am as a human being moving in the world. And so just as I’ve, as I’ve gotten older and matured and still have lots of insecurities, I also think that I have learned how to make it, or to choose clothes, to choose wardrobe, to choose makeup that is going to help me feel comfortable so that I can be confident.
Liz Okay.
Ellie Even when sometimes, like, I don’t feel confident on the inside.
Marge I love that.
Liz Can I say something as, as Ellie’s long-term stylist, both in Dia and outside of Dia, and someone who’s like watched Ellie’s style evolve over time and like and has sort of seen your role as a rabbi evolve, too, or as a clergy person evolve, too? I do think that there is a level of—
Ellie Correct. True. True.
Marge Of course.
Liz I think confidence plays a huge role in this. I think you’re absolutely right, that you, from my perspective, at least, I think that there was just so much trying to balance a lot of different perspectives. Ellie has always been somebody who has had a strong point of view, and your own point of view matters, and I’ve always respected that so much. Like, being comfortable is important to Ellie, that is important in selecting clothes and has always been important in selecting clothes, but so has other people’s perception. And just over time, I think what is important to Ellie has gotten more and more important in the selection of clothes process. And I just think that that’s been really incredible. That journey has been really incredible to be a part of as your role as rabbi and your leadership has grown over time too, sort of going from student to student rabbi to assistant rabbi now to this more senior leadership role.
Ellie And the other thing I’ll say as a person, I’m five foot nine, and I am, I am not a small human being, um, and often in plus-size clothing. There have been a lot of times where the clothing that I was finding did not reflect the image I felt of myself or the one I wanted to portray. Hopefully those were aligned more often than not. And I will say thanks to Liz, um, who has said like, really, Ellie, you should try this style or you should try this look. I have pushed my own boundaries about what is possible. Um, and though Liz and I have not lived in the same city, um, I think since we were in college, Liz, it’s almost as though Liz is my friend that I’m shopping with, handing me clothes while I’m in the dressing room, being like, you just have to try this. You just have to try this.
Maloree Mm-hmm.
Ellie And I think that’s the beauty of, not that I’m getting paid by Dia for this episode, but that is the beauty of this type of service, that it is that personalized. I mean, and, and I’m not afraid to give Liz feedback when I don’t like the style of things.
Liz No. Yeah, that’s good.
Marge That’s making me emotional in a wonderful way. I love to hear that. That’s, I love it. I love that. Speaking of your style, I want to hear details. I want to know outfits. I want to know what you, maybe outfits that you liked before and maybe don’t like now, or, or outfits that like you’ve evolved to challenge yourself to try, maybe certain styles that Liz sent, and you’re like, no way, but then I wanna know all about your style. What do you love to wear to start us off?
Ellie I love to wear jeans and a long-sleeve T-shirt and a sandal. Um, I very rarely have opportunity to wear that. I live in Austin. It is often very warm, so that is far too warm of clothing to be wearing. Never, almost never. A few days a year.
Maloree I was about to say, when are you wearing that in Texas? ‘Cause—
Liz Like, you can send me jeans and long-sleeve T-shirts, and then she’s like, no, you actually can’t.
Maloree Well—
Marge I don’t think I’ve ever seen Maloree on a call in your 72-degree air conditioning wearing a long-sleeve shirt.
Maloree No. Mm-mm.
Liz It’d be our dream.
Ellie And so that is not what I tend to wear. Um, Austin is a pretty casual place. And during the work week, I am often wearing like slacks and a blouse and sometimes a third piece, depending on the temperature. Often, I think Maloree has said this before, when you live in Texas, you take off your sweater to go outside and put it on to come inside because of the air conditioning.
Maloree Yeah, that’s right.
Marge Yeah.
Ellie Um, so that is often, or I sometimes, I sometimes I’m wearing a simple T-shirt dress or something along those lines. And then for, um, the weekend, the Sabbath, when I have worship and life cycle celebrations, I am in business formal: a dress and a jacket, a suit. I tend to be pretty formal, um, when I’m leading in those circumstances and for life cycle events. And so in those moments, I would say my style really comes across in my jewelry and in my accessories and often in, um, the, you know, whatever blouse I’m wearing under a suit or something like that. I’m not afraid of a big, bold floral pattern. I definitely know that I look best in an A-line dress, thanks to Liz. I wear skirts, skirt suits, I wear pantsuits. Um, I actually love blazers and jackets and wish that they would stop making them with very uncomfortable linings, especially when they’re linen, so that they could be cooler.
Marge Yes.
Maloree Okay.
Ellie Um, because I actually think on my body, I have broad shoulders. They look quite, I look good in a suit and a jacket. And I have really, in the last number of years, gotten into brooches, and so often have a brooch on or a couple of brooches on my jacket. And those are all kind of pieces.
Liz Huh.
Maloree No.
Ellie But I’m very much a person who, like, if I find a dress that I like, I will buy it in every color that it’s sold.
Maloree Yes. Yep.
Marge Hard same.
Liz And tell what you wore to Denise’s son’s wedding.
Ellie To my, my stepson’s wedding, Denise is my wife, also a rabbi. I wore a custom, I bought a custom tuxedo that had just tuxedo pants with the satin on the, on the seam, on the outer seam, and then it had a brocade jacket with a bright orange inside liner.
Liz Yes.
Marge Oh my god, I love this.
Liz And it looked gorgeous, gorgeous.
Ellie And there was a lot, a lot of messaging to Liz about the decisions around the tuxedo and the shirt that went under the tuxedo, which was just really like a black shell not to distract from the brocade jacket. I will say that the company that made that, um, that tuxedo, I also purchased a suit. I hate their pants. Um, so I have kept the tuxedo jacket and found other tuxedo pants that fit better for my body.
Marge Right.
Ellie When I’ve worn that, and I’ve worn that to officiate weddings, I’ve worn that to other black-tie events. Um, yeah, it’s been a, that’s been a million-miler outfit. Definitely, like, do not like to buy things that I only wear one time.
Liz Made it work.
Marge And I think that’s the point that you made about you don’t like the brand’s pants, but you love their jackets. I think that, like—
Liz Hmm.
Marge —um, understanding and knowing going into it that okay, if I love the jacket, that’s fine. I may just have to find other options for the pants and not to, like, I don’t know. I think there’s a part of me that back years ago it’d be like, oh, well, I guess I’m not gonna get the whole, like, I’m not gonna get any part of it, and it’s my body’s problem, and sort of spiral out. And it’s like, no, I like the jacket. I’m getting the jacket. I’ll figure out how to make it work. And something like that, especially, I wrote down a episode idea, third piece, um, because I think the, like, toppers and jackets can do so much and really be those, like, constant outfit repeaters, but also make outfits feel really new and fresh and polished, elevated without a whole lot of effort.
Liz Absolutely.
Maloree I mean, we know Liz loves a denim jacket.
Liz I sure do.
Ellie And Texas—
Liz Rarely without one.
Ellie —is a great place to have a denim jacket. There’s often one in the backseat of my car just in case I need that third piece, whether, whether because I’m actually cold or I just feel like I need a finishing piece. And one thing I will also add that is not totally relevant to Marge’s question is in my office I also keep a black blazer. I don’t think I’ve ever actually worn it, but I know that it is there.
Marge Yeah.
Ellie Because the odds are if I have to go on camera, if someone comes to the synagogue that I’m not expecting, or I have to run to the Capitol to speak at something, or I need to run to a bedside in the hospital, I have a black jacket in case of emergency. Black blazer, it’s not a jacket, sorry.
Marge Do you—
Liz Your job is so crazy. Just every time I think about it, it is so crazy.
Marge Yeah.
Ellie Yes, it is.
Marge Well, I w-, I was gonna say, like, is there, does your style change based on the different parts of your job? Or are you able to sort of thread that in, that thread through sort of all, all of the different aspects of your job? Is there something that you always wear that makes you sort of feel true to, true to you, or does that change over time?
Ellie I think it’s changed over time. I think part of my job that’s so confusing is that when I first became a rabbi, I’ve been a rabbi for eighteen years, leading worship was a thing that I did. And I, you know, I often had to be in pictures with a young person who is celebrating a life cycle ceremony, and you know, their, their pictures are gonna be forever. Or, and now I’m being live-streamed all the time when my live stream works, which should happen more often. And so I’m actually like essentially on camera. And so I feel very comfortable leading worship, and I am wearing a lot of makeup, much more makeup than I wear, you know, Monday to Thursday or Sunday to Thursday, because— and also something else I pay attention to is I often wear a bold lip because so many people are, have hearing issues or hard of hearing. And I know that when I wear a bold lip, and if they are lipreading, whether they are conscious of it or not, they have an easier time finding my lips to hear or understand what I’m saying.
Liz That is so interesting.
Marge Wow.
Maloree That is so smart. I would have never thought about that.
Liz Fascinating.
Ellie I think about a lot of these. And also, when you’re on camera, this could be another great episode for the pod. You have to be very conscious. You know, white is not a great on-camera color. So French blue shirts, you know— black isn’t even really always the best either. But I’ve found wearing bold colors, I have a lot of bold color blazers that I wear very often that, you know, I get a lot of compliments on the bright colors. People like to see that.
Marge Yeah.
Ellie And also the space where I’m standing is sort of a muted tan stone. So if I’m wearing brown standing in front of the brown wall, I’ve disappeared. So I try to be mindful of those things too.
Marge Right.
Liz Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So interesting.
Ellie And Liz will say again, Ellie, your job is so weird.
Liz Your job is so weird. And I wonder if your male colleagues are getting the same kind of comments or feedback from—
Marge Or trying with a fraction of the effort.
Ellie So I do think, I don’t know—
Liz The same, yeah.
Ellie —that they’re getting the same kinds of comments. I actually wonder sometimes if it’s harder, easier, or more difficult for men. I worked in a congregation that was very formal on the bimah. And when I asked, sort of trying to understand from my boss, like, tell me about the expectation for wardrobe on the bimah, he very clearly said to me, men wear white shirts and black shoes. And so that was a very clear— this was a very formal place. I have never been more anxious about my wardrobe than when I was working in that congregation, and even more anxious about my shoes because there was a lot of stares. And I am at a point where I’m not often wearing heels and felt like I needed to be wearing heels, and that just felt uncomfortable sometimes.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Marge I would love to hear more if you’re comfortable sharing. You mentioned traveling and how you travel a lot, and you— I know you lobby in front of Congress and you work in D.C., and you just do so much more than what I think many may think of as the, the careers of, of clergy. And I would love to hear more about that if you’re comfortable sharing and, and maybe how style and packing and traveling and all of that like adds on to the, the career and the work that you do. It’s not just the hours that you kind of like clock in during the day. It’s so much beyond that. And I think people would find that interesting.
Ellie So I am fortunate that I have opportunity at least once a year, sometimes more often. Well, definitely in Austin, going down to the Capitol is not a lar— it’s not a huge deal. It’s down the street. So to be in front of state representatives and also in Washington at the federal level. And I think those are much more complicated because, as I said, Austin is a pretty casual place, especially in the summer when it is very hot. And D.C., although it can be very hot and humid in the summer, there is also a different dress code when one is going to lobby on the Hill. And that is, that is definitely business formal with comfortable footwear.
Liz Hmm.
Marge Lots of walking.
Ellie And lots of walking, lots of standing on marble. So I think the way that my style has evolved, and also sometimes you have to, if it’s winter, you have to carry your winter coat. Like there’s, there’s all the things that can happen in terms of the variable climate in the wor— in the environments we find ourselves. And so for, in terms of packing, I try to pack pieces that are pretty easy to wear multiple ways and also that are gonna travel well. I am not a huge fan of ironing or steaming. Steaming in the shower is a little bit easier sometimes, but thinking about those kinds of things again, and then the footwear comes in and it all gets even more complicated.
Liz Yeah.
Marge Absolutely. I think that leads us really nicely. I wasn’t really planning on that, but I guess it leads us so nicely into our SOS. So I love, I, I think it’s fascinating to hear about other people’s lives and the role that style and fashion play in not just their careers, but their— and maybe before we get to the SOS, like how does your style translate personally outside of work? You mentioned long-sleeve shirts and jeans and sandals. How do you spend your, your free time outside of work, and does style play— do you think about style as much as you do for work, or do you sort of wear whatever you want and call it a day?
Ellie I do not often wear whatever I want. And my wife sometimes needs to remind me like, yes, we’re just going to Costco, and remember last time we ran into someone and you weren’t expecting it? Or like running to H-E-B, which is the grocery store, Maloree will appreciate. But, you know, those, those like typical errands, I also like often have to think like, right, I could run into someone when I’m not expecting to see them. So—
Marge [laughs] Uh-huh. Yep.
Liz Yeah.
Maloree Yep, yep.
Marge Yeah.
Ellie I do think it’s, I do think I, I am not often totally always wearing whatever I want, and I definitely do not mind when I run into people I know as someone who has a public role being seen in shorts and a T-shirt or my jeans and a long-sleeve T-shirt. Those are all— I don’t mind any of those things.
Marge Yeah.
Maloree Is that exhausting though? Like, constantly having to think about like if somebody sees me, like, what they’re thinking. I just feel like that would be so exhausting. And like props to you for doing it, ’cause I know I couldn’t.
Ellie So when I was in seminary, one of my now friends, another female-identified rabbi who was one of the first to be ordained, she was serving in a large congregation, and she gave all of us, male- and female-identified students, a tip. And she told us a story that she was wearing a suit, and one of her congregants, who happened to be someone who had tremendous wealth, went up to their rabbi and said, Rabbi, didn’t I see you in that suit a few weeks ago? And, and the rabbi, like so smart, turned and said, You did. It’s my favorite.
Marge Yeah.
Marge Well—
Ellie And that happens, that happens all, like— I think about that story all the time. About trying to make sure I’m mixing up my wardrobe and not wearing the same thing all the time. Whereas it might be easier to have a little bit of a uniform and also to realize that, and when— before we started recording, Marge kind of I think wanted me to talk about this, or Liz might have wanted me to talk about this.
Liz Good.
Marge Yeah.
Liz Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Ellie You know, I, I think this is something in terms of fashion that uniquely women, female-identified people experience. And that is, oftentimes my congregants will say to me with so much love, Rabbi, I love your jacket. I love the color. And I say thank you, and I’m super gracious. And the internal monologue is, How about my sermon? Did you like that? And I realize like they’re trying to connect with me, and so I shouldn’t internalize their comment so seriously. And I love it when people comment on my words or my leadership or my content or those kinds of things. I mean, also, like this, and this is really crazy. I have worn glasses for a long time, and a couple of years ago I switched to contacts. And I’ve always been very conscious of getting lenses, lenses in my glasses that had anti-glare and anti— all the things so that it wasn’t a distraction. And sometimes I use my glasses as an accessory. That is still true. I have multiple pairs of glasses.
Marge Preaching to the choir.
Liz Great glasses. Ellie’s always had great glasses.
Ellie And when I got my— when I got my— when I got my contacts and started wearing them, several congregants said to me, Rabbi, now we can see your face. And I was like, you couldn’t see my face before? Like I’m so confused. But, and—
Marge Mm.
Liz God.
Ellie It, it just— people say like— people say very interesting things to people who are in, who are in public roles, you know, very minor, like, Z-list celebrity in their town or city.
Marge Yep. I think—
Liz It’s crazy. And I just think that those are things that the layperson doesn’t think about. I just don’t think that. And to Maloree’s point, I do think that I’ve got to believe that at some point that just becomes exhausting.
Ellie And also, maybe I, maybe I just overthink it. I overthink a lot of things.
Liz But part of the job.
Marge But it’s, it’s sort of reminding me of the, of the fact that there’s, I don’t think we could even call it a phenomenon. It’s like societal patriarchal BS. Here Marge goes. This is probably at the point where my dad turned off the last episode. But it’s so common for people to say, oh my gosh, your son, what is he doing? What’s his life like? And people talk about his career, their successes, their like career first, where—
Maloree Yeah.
Marge Women are often, your daughter’s so beautiful. Like she’s so— I, I remember constantly, not constantly, but like the biggest comment people would give me was like cheery smile, or like, you’re smiling, or whatever. And it like, or you’re happy, pretty, whatever. And I’m like, yeah, but I’m so— that’s like so basic. And I find myself tuning into conversations. And I think it’s shifting now with sort of the younger generations about how like men introduce their partners, or people introduce people, and what they lead with, and leading with their mind, their soul, their spirit, who they are as a person beyond just their looks. And I would hope to think that we’re moving in that direction positively.
Liz Right.
Ellie And, and, and I do wanna— I, I’ve said like maybe things that could have seemed very negative. I also wanna name that I think as a female rabbi, as a female clergy person, I am having influence. And so this is— you’re gonna, you’re gonna love this one. So I got a message. One of our young people, she’s a pre— she was a preteen at the time, was having wardrobe difficulties. She was, she had a special honor on a, at a special, very special service on a holiday, and her mom was trying to help her and said, What about a pantsuit? You know, like, you would look great in that. And this kid looked at her, a female-identified kid, said to her mom, Mom, I’m not Rabbi Steinman. I cannot rock a pantsuit.
Marge I love that.
Liz That’s amazing.
Ellie And I was like, my work here is done. Thank you, everyone.
Liz May that be your legacy.
Marge Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. It really— it wasn’t until I was like in my teens that the church that I grew up in got our first like female priest. And I thought she was the cool— I mean, maybe there was one when I was a little bit younger, but I thought they were the coolest. I was like, oh, you get it. Okay, cool. But there was always a lot of pushback. There’s still even, like, they don’t—
Liz Great.
Marge —refer, like it, it’s not the same as, as the men who held the same positions, and I— it’s, it sucks, the pressure that we put on women just in general. But I, I love that you’re now influencing the next generation in the work that you do and also you’re rocking pantsuits. I’d love to get to, since we actually want to solve your, your emergency here. Even if it’s, it’s passed, I have a sneaky suspicion you’ll have more opportunities like this in the future. But Ellie wrote in the SOS that we will highlight today. And if you’re okay with it, Ellie, I’ll read your submission, and then we’ll take it from there. And if I’ve left anything out, by all means chime in. But you wrote in and said, I have to get up at 4 a.m. to catch a flight to Washington, D.C., for three days of professional meetings, including lobbying members of Congress. I’ll be doing a lot of walking, standing, networking, and carrying everything I need with me throughout the day. I need to look polished and professional, but I also need to be comfortable enough to survive airports, long days, and Capitol Hill. Help me build a wardrobe, and don’t forget the bag.
Liz Bag, back to the bag.
Marge The bag. The bag. I guess I didn’t realize, yeah, you’d have to—
Ellie And Liz, Liz, Liz got a separate text about the bag, just to be clear.
Liz Yeah, we spent a long time on the bag. The bag actually became like the central point of this SOS because there’s a lot of back and forth about do we backpack or do we not.
Marge Yeah.
Marge Ooh, that’s a struggle I often run into myself.
Liz Huh.
Ellie And then the, like, solution became from me recalling, and my wife will love that I forgot that I owned a bag, as she thinks I have too many of them, that I had the perfect solution bag in my own closet already. I just didn’t think about it when I was describing the options to Liz.
Liz I love it when that happens.
Marge I ran into a backpack or no-backpack situation yesterday. So I’m curious to see what you ended up going with. But Liz, can I ask you to take the lead on this since you were the, the text superhero in the moment to maybe give some overview?
Liz Would love to, and can I just suggest that maybe we leave the bag conversation till the end and do, like, maybe a round robin of work bags at the end? Does that work? Just because I think it’s like a separate, okay, so I…
Marge Sure. Yeah. And, and one thing I guess I didn’t understand, Ellie. I didn’t understand until you just spoke through it. Like, you really have to carry everything that you’re with, like, all day. I’m guessing you’re not, like, running back and forth to a hotel or Airbnb to, like, quick change, drop this off, grab this, whatever. You’re like, okay, here I am. You gotta bring it all. Yeah. Okay. Liz for the win.
Ellie Yes. All day.
Liz So Ellie, I can’t remember where we ended for you in particular, but I’m going to suggest two separate outfits, because I’m going to assume this is a two-day trip. But I will just suggest two different outfits, because we’re doing a full box. So I’m going to suggest a pair of pants with a matching jacket so that it’s separates, but it could be styled as a suit. And we happen to have an, obviously this doesn’t have to come from Dia, but we happen to currently have in our inventory a breathable bottom and jacket. I’m calling it, like, a suit or separates set that, it looks like suiting, but it sort of has more of a breathable, like, it’s not athleisure. I don’t want to call it athleisure, but it, it has more of, like, a breathable quality. So you can definitely travel in it. And I think that that is key. It is not linen, so you don’t have to worry about wrinkles. And you can wear it together. You can wear it on the plane. I would send it to you in black or navy, depending on what you’re sort of missing in your wardrobe. That is what I would tell you to wear on the plane, probably with a rayon knit underneath. The best part about this jacket though, as you mentioned earlier, is it’s not lined. And so you don’t have to worry about any extra bulk or lining that’s gonna get in your way later. And if you are sort of waiting around later on in the day, having lunch outside between meetings, easily take the jacket off, stuff it in your bag, and you don’t have to worry about it getting wrinkled. And I think that’s the kind of jacket that you want in general. And then for a second outfit, I am going to send you with one of our new, and again, I’m picking from our inventory, sorry, not sorry, one of our new eyelet belted dresses so that you have a defined waist. I want you to make sure that you have some shape in what you’re wearing. This is not an opportunity for a nap dress, sorry. We are going to send you with some structure, and so I’m either sending you an A-line or a more fit-and-flare dress from London Times. I do think that you could have something on the shorter, like a tea-length from London Times, but for you in particular, Ellie, I’m not sending that. For you in particular, I’m sending one of our new—
Maloree [laughs]
Marge Okay.
Liz —in-house Molly & Isadora dresses that has a belt that you can also wear with the jacket because I know you want that extra layer the next day. The belt will define your waist. The, the question that we kept coming back to though was what shoes are you wearing? And I think that we settled on a solid white sneaker. So we learned that on Capitol Hill, everyone is wearing sneakers because you’re walking around so much, which I know is not the case in New York. But on Capitol Hill, we decided a sneaker was okay and was key. And I personally, I find them very comfortable, but I know that they’re not for everybody. I like a Stan Smith. I know Marge is not a Stan Smith person, but—
Marge Really? Huh.
Liz I would go with a Stan Smith. I like just the small pop of color in the back heel, but I think we just lost Ellie, but she’ll come back. But that is what I would go with just for, like, a little something extra, but I would definitely be going with a leather sneaker, not a canvas sneaker. So that is me. Maloree, what do you want to add to this? Marge, what do you want to—
Marge I, I have a pair like these. Yeah, yeah. I love that.
Maloree I was gonna say definitely a ponte material for pants and/or jacket, although ponte might be heavy for a jacket, because you don’t have to worry about it wrinkling. It’s comfortable because it’s stretchy, so you could wear it on the plane. So that would be my, like, material of choice. But for shoes, I love Rothy’s. I have, like, weird feet, and my feet get blisters bad. Like, even just walking from a parking lot inside, I get a blister. But Rothy’s are very comfortable for me. And I love, one, that they’re very easy to wear and washable if they get dirty. But they look nice. Like, they have so many different styles, and they look nice, and they’re comfortable, and they’re easy. And I think that’s key.
Marge I just bought my mom a pair for the first time. I don’t own any, but so many people I know talk about loving them, and she’s worn them a ton and, and absolutely loves them.
Maloree I’m a flats fan.
Liz Do you have Rothy’s?
Ellie I had Rothy’s, I have to confess. I find Allbirds to be more comfortable with more support than Rothy’s. And I would say I appreciate Maloree’s suggestion. Definitely, they do, they do not have enough support for me for the whole day.
Liz Okay.
Maloree Yeah. See, I don’t, for me, I don’t need, like, like, personally, I don’t need a ton of support, but I could definitely see how, because they have no arch support whatsoever. So that I could definitely see. If you need it, don’t go with Rothy’s. But if you don’t need that support, I like them.
Marge And that’s where I would go with a—because I do need a lot of support. But I would think sneakers, I like the idea of sneakers a lot. I would actually go for, like, a lug sole loafer that I knew had some support in it that would be maybe a platform that I could wear with slacks or I could wear with a dress. I would probably actually tailor the pants a little bit shorter so they were cropped so that, like, the shoes could have their moment.
Liz Show a pop of ankle.
Marge Absolutely, absolutely. But no, I think how you styled that is great. I think as it’s somewhat summer, I would probably swap the tra—like the trousers or, like, work slacks for a pair of linen pants. But I also understand that, like, linen wrinkles like crazy, and that’s just a struggle that I would have to decide whether or not I cared enough. But I like, I, I do think the, like, third piece blazer jacket that you can throw on anywhere and dress it up, dress it down, wear it in a million ways. Like, you could even go out for dinner and drinks with, like, friends or colleagues with, like, a cute T-shirt underneath it and a pair of jeans and your Stan Smith sneakers and feel really put together—
Liz Right.
Marge —in, in sort of those, those pieces without feeling too, still professional.
Liz Ellie, I’m curious, what shoes did you end up wearing?
Ellie So I ended up going shopping, and I got a pair of white sneakers that are, I think the br—I can’t remember the brand, sorry. But I bought them from a local shoe store called Karavel. They’re, they’re a little bit, I think they’re very comfortable. Another friend said they were a little bit nerdy when I was wearing them, like when we went on, on a different trip, but under a suit they looked fine. And I, they’re very comfortable and they were perfect for the whole day of walking around. And I will probably take them on a vacation this summer also. So they’re gonna get a lot of use.
Marge I love that. I think, I think there’s an episode that we should do around, like, the things that everybody needs in their closet. And not that we’re starting a cult or anything, but I think that there are just some styles, like the denim jacket, like a black blazer, like a pair of clean white sneakers that are just, like, crucial to have, like easy to have on hand, aren’t super expensive.
Liz Yeah.
Maloree Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Liz Yeah.
Marge You can find them across all price points. You can find them across all sizes that are just those, those essentials, part of that, like, essential package. Awesome. Well, I think we’re gonna probably try to create a box, a, a themed box specific for sort of this, like, work trip moment. Or I know actually right now, and it may not be still live when we publish this episode, but—
Liz Yeah. Yeah. [unclear] about it.
Marge Maloree just launched the Nine to Thrive box, right? Yes, Nine to Thrive about workwear. I love the name. And so if you are looking for workwear, we have a lot of workwear right now, but we will also always continue to have a themed box dedicated to workwear because I think it’s actually one of the hardest categories to find clothes that also feel like your personal style.
Maloree Yes, yes.
Liz Thank you.
Ellie One hundred percent.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Maloree Hundred percent.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Marge So I think that that is also hard, like it’s just hard to source because there are not a lot of options, but the options that are out there aren’t great. Except for, for what we know. Like you talked about, Ellie, the, the blazers and and getting dressed up and and having to find clothes in your early seminary years, your early rabbinical years, like the options in plus sizes.
Liz Mm-mm. Mm-mm.
Marge Mm, 15, 20 years ago, it was either like super casual or it was going-out tops with like lace and straps and like nothing in between. And—
Maloree Yeah.
Ellie And don’t forget the horrendous, colorful, like neon paisley, but not in a good way.
Marge Yes.
Maloree Mm-hmm.
Marge Yes. And the, yeah, like I’m gonna throw the names Lane Bryant and Torrid. We should, I feel like some of us should be entitled to financial compensation if we had to wear some of their clothes in the early aughts for professional reasons. Because like why? Why? Why? But yeah, like it was very, very hard to find professional clothes. It’s gotten a lot better.
Liz So funny.
Ellie It’s a lot better. It’s so much better. And a company like Dia of course helps.
Marge And so, and having like somebody else, like, like, you work, we’ll do the work for you. Like you already have enough on your plate. I say this to anybody, like we all have a lot going on. Tap into the people who want to help you out. We love to do this. So I, this is awesome. This was so much fun. I guess I am sort of at, at the end of, of our time here together.
Maloree Mm-hmm.
Marge But I have a couple rapid-fire questions for you, Ellie, and then we can wrap it up with the last question that we teased at the beginning, which is about the bag. One item that is always packed.
Ellie You got it. A half-zip or half-snap pullover. Black. Wear it in all weather conditions, but just a perfect extra layer.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Marge Love that. A window or aisle seat.
Ellie Aisle. Always.
Marge Interesting. Carry-on or checked bag.
Ellie Carry-on. Carry-on.
Marge Really? Yes, agreed. Coffee before flights or coffee on flight or no coffee?
Ellie Before. Have you read the things about water on airplanes? Before.
Maloree Yeah. Yes.
Liz Yeah, that’s disgusting. That’s disgusting.
Marge Oh no. Oh no. I know what I’m Googling after. Okay, thank you so much. One workwear item everyone should own.
Liz Don’t drink the coffee on the plane. Don’t drink the coffee on the—
Maloree Well—
Ellie A blazer that fits your body that makes you feel powerful.
Marge Hell yeah. And your favorite work bag or the work bag that you brought on your most recent work trip.
Ellie That’s a— okay, I cannot answer this question with one bag. I’m so sorry.
Maloree [laughs]
Marge I like you. It’s really hard.
Ellie I have, on the, on the work trip, I took a Longchamp cloth tote bag with leather straps because I could fit everything in it. It fit perfectly. It was okay over my shoulder. It was easy with the carry-on luggage, and it was perfect. And Liz and I had a long discussion that backpacks and suits don’t always go together. So I really like that bag. I also have a July backpack that I tend to use as my everyday work bag. And it’s really comfortable. It has enough pockets. It looks extremely professional. It doesn’t, I mean, it is a backpack, but it doesn’t have logos or any kind of color on it. And so I’m a big fan of those two bags. And then my third pick, because I, as my wife would attest, I like a bag. I have a Cuyana zipper tote that I also use at times for work.
Marge Love. Absolutely love. Okay, I’m gonna ask Liz and Maloree the same question. What’s your go-to work bag or go-to travel bag?
Maloree Mine is a Jon Hart. I love Jon Hart. I think the quality is amazing and they look nice. Like mine has been thrown around. It had to get checked at one point and you would never know. It looks brand new still. And like I said, I think they just look nice, they stand the test of time, and they hold a lot of stuff. And that is important to me. They have all the room in the world.
Marge Never heard of this brand, and now I’m on their website, and I feel like I’m gonna be shopping.
Liz I’m going to take a—
Maloree It’s a, it’s from Texas, so, but they’ve been around for years. Like my dad remembers as a kid his cousin getting Jon Hart stuff that has lasted her like her entire life. So I have many Jon Hart pieces because they’re worth the investment. And I think the same goes for like Longchamp and all of the, like it’s finding the good brands that are gonna last a long time.
Marge That’s all.
Liz Right there.
Marge Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay, Liz, how about you?
Liz Mine is an L.L.Bean Boat and Tote. I just, an oldie but a goodie. You can just pack so much in those. I like, I’m a tote, I’m a bag-in-a-bag girly. So like, I like to put lots of bags into bags. And so, you know, I put my computer bag in that bag. I put my makeup bag in that bag. I put my book and Kindle in that bag. And so that is my go-to for all things, whether I’m traveling or going to work, a Boat and Tote.
Marge Oh yep. Same. Awesome. I’m staring at a pile of maybe four or five Boat and Totes right now in my parents’ house because we live in an L.L.Bean family.
Liz Yeah. They only get better the older they get.
Marge Truly, I think the, the one that I’m staring at, the biggest one that we have, is at least 25, if not 30 years old. No, probably 35 years old. Indestructible. Indestructible. I have been a hardcore Kate Spade fan for years and years and years.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Maloree Yes.
Marge Their secret recipe is their outlet store. Their outlet store in Maine is amazing. That was like a go-to trip on the way home from family vacation growing up. They also have an outlet website. And I struggle with a backpack, no-backpack moment. Yesterday I went to the hospital with my Kate Spade backpack and pigtails in my hair and shorts. And it’s, I was like, I feel like I’m a toddler. And this is wild. But I like it because it has adjustable straps, and you can wear it as like a crossbody messenger. It’s got short straps, you can wear it as a purse, like it’s got a lot of options. And so I like to, to play with that. And then I also have another one that’s like a leather, like big sort of like tote, over-the-shoulder tote bag that I can still fit my laptop in. I’m a bag-in-a-bag-in-a-bag girl, and I just like to always have all the things that I, I need close by and inevitably forget something important.
Liz Mm-hmm.
Marge Well, this was awesome, and it was a great conversation. Ellie, thank you so much for your time and for sharing your style and your, your life and career with us.
Ellie Thank you so much for having me. It’s been truly an honor and thrill.
Marge Awesome. Awesome. Well, yeah, this is, this is so fun. Still, this is the best part of my week. Every, every other week, the best part of my week is recording SOS. So you can submit a style emergency at dia.com slash SOS. Podcasts come out every other Friday. And I’m not sure what we’re gonna get into in the next one, but I’m sure we’ll figure it out before then. Okay, bye.
Liz Thanks, Ellie. See you soon. Bye.

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